Curse

Zeru · Jun 20, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I've always thought that Ranger/mesmer was just a really good anti-caster setup and just another of the Rangers many possibilities to play.

But looking closer recently I've found that there really only seems one reason to go R/Me: Echo+debilitating shot for energy denial. Now don't get me wrong, that is really good energy denial, as you're firing a debil every arrow more or less and that's probably better than anything else except maybe fear me builds for energy denial.

But I really can't find a good use for R/Me besides that, excluding putting in maybe 1 more low energy skill to sap energy, as 10 energy skills mixed with Rangers is not wise if expertise doesn't affect them unless they are very limited use.

Am I right, or are there more reasons to go R/Me than just that?

smedge · Jun 20, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

My R/Me is one of my most powerful killers. I stack conjure phantasm with poison for -9 degen then use savage and distracting shot to kill any attempts at heals or hex/condition removal. Good stuff.

Desperado1G · Jun 20, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Fragility and Incendiary Arrows is a killer too.

Ollj · Jun 20, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

"rangers do no damage" lol

Zeru · Jun 20, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Okay, sorry but Conjure Phantasm is not a pvp worthwhile skill. Degen is not very powerful, it's just 'nice' but basing a build off it is a waste.

Fragility/Incendiary is nice, especially if you don't max wilderness, but the problem is that Incendiary Arrows is only up 1/3 of the time. It's pretty good damage in that time frame but lacking in the 16/24 seconds that it's not activated. Decent but not optimal imo.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 09:49 PM // 21:49

how about this:
greater conflaguration+winter+Cold(Ice) Mantra
or just Winter+Ice Mantra
or Greater Conflaguration+Fire Mantra
would reduce all damage dealt to you

Zeru · Jun 20, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

It's a good idea...but honestly who targets the ranger first?

Having two skills to let me tank better when my team is dead is probably not efficient unless it's a storm chaser/dodge/lightning reflexes/serpents quickness flag runner setup who will be targeted

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

get your entire team to bring ice mantra lol.

Actually, I use a echo-dibil shot R/Me myself (posted it here, too) The other powerful combos that you can use are:

Incendiary Arrows + Fragility (already mentioned)
All condition inflicters (pin down, conc, throw dirt, phantom pain) + epidemic
Serpents Quickness + Signet of Humility (infinite elite lockdown)
Traps + Mantra of Resolve+ Inspiration Mana Siphoning Spells
Arcane Conundrum/Migraine + Ranger interupt shots
Diversion+ Distracting Shot + Wastrel's Worry + Serpents Quickness

I actually fit in combo #3 with my echo-dibil ranger.

Seth Oriath · Jun 21, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Okay, sorry but Conjure Phantasm is not a pvp worthwhile skill. Degen is not very powerful, it's just 'nice' but basing a build off it is a waste.

I'm sorry, but trying to tell others what to do with their build on your assumptions is a waste too. Every skill can have a purpose everywhere when you actually USE it.

I'm a R/Me, and I base myself on Conjure Phantasm + Poison + Bleeding + Incendiary Arrows (if I can get it up in time). I know what you're thinking. "But the max you can go with degen is 10!" Well, you're right AND wrong with that. Trying doing a healing breeze on someone that has a 15 degen set on them. It WILL NOT negate the effects of the degen, even at a full 10 regen. It will bring the 5 degen that you never see back into play, and guess what? Unless a monk knows what they're doing, the first one they're going to cast is Healing Breeze because they think they can just negate the whole degen process, which doesn't work with my build in most cases.

Yes, it can be countered, but it's not like this is all my build can do.

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth Oriath

I'm sorry, but trying to tell others what to do with their build on your assumptions is a waste too. Every skill can have a purpose everywhere when you actually USE it.

I'm a R/Me, and I base myself on Conjure Phantasm + Poison + Bleeding + Incendiary Arrows (if I can get it up in time). I know what you're thinking. "But the max you can go with degen is 10!" Well, you're right AND wrong with that. Trying doing a healing breeze on someone that has a 15 degen set on them. It WILL NOT negate the effects of the degen, even at a full 10 regen. It will bring the 5 degen that you never see back into play, and guess what? Unless a monk knows what they're doing, the first one they're going to cast is Healing Breeze because they think they can just negate the whole degen process, which doesn't work with my build in most cases.

Yes, it can be countered, but it's not like this is all my build can do.

Poison = Apply Poison or Poison Arrow
Bleed = Hunters Shot or Barbed Trap
On Fire = Incendiary Arrows
Conjure = Conjure

So at best you are using 4 skills to inflict all those conditions, and you might as well take fragility and phantom pain for some more condition power, and heck why not epidemic too? Thats 4/8 skills, 7/8 if you use my suggested skills, so what exactly else can your ranger do? Just wondering.

ComMan · Jun 21, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Conjure is a hex, not a condition. It won't trigger fragility.

I can't believe how many people think Epidemic is actually work using. Your targets have to be shoulder to shoulder for it to work. With Expertise, you're better off to just inflict your conditions on 2 targets and be done with it, it'll cost you less mana and save skill slots. Unless Epidemic's area is boosted significantly I can't justify throwing out 15 mana for it.

The problem with the R/Me anti-caster is that you're just plain worse than a Mesmer anti-caster. You survive better, but most people consider this a moot point because "nobody targets you until your team is dead."

I play an R/Me, but ATM I use only Ranger skills. So you know what? Don't listen to my advice.

smedge · Jun 21, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Okay, sorry but Conjure Phantasm is not a pvp worthwhile skill. Degen is not very powerful, it's just 'nice' but basing a build off it is a waste.

Read my post. I stack it with poison, then interrupt heals/hex removal. Believe me it kills swiftly and is completely worth building a char around if used in combination with complimenary skills (i have 4 slots left to PWN you with). Also not having to have LOS is very nice.

Also remember degen negates that pesky armor thing ;-)

And yes this is a PvP character. One with a very high kill to death ratio.

Seth Oriath · Jun 21, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Poison = Apply Poison or Poison Arrow
Bleed = Hunters Shot or Barbed Trap
On Fire = Incendiary Arrows
Conjure = Conjure

So at best you are using 4 skills to inflict all those conditions, and you might as well take fragility and phantom pain for some more condition power, and heck why not epidemic too? Thats 4/8 skills, 7/8 if you use my suggested skills, so what exactly else can your ranger do? Just wondering.

When I'm in this build (which isn't all the time, I switch up builds quite often), I'll have those four (Apply Poison, Hunter's Shot, Incendiary Arrows, and Conjure Phantasm). That leaves four more skills to bring. Favorable Winds is almost constantly in my skill bar, along with Tiger's Fury. That leaves two left, right? Well, the last two totally depend on what my mood is. Sometimes res sig and Troll Unguent, sometimes Penetrating Shot and Dual Shot. Although, normally if I have Tiger's Fury with me, I don't bring near as many attack skills. I know what you're thinking on that too. "Why? Tiger's Fury doesn't disable them!" Yes, but when you use the combinations that I do (FW + shortbow), you will actually slow down your actions by using an attack skill. It's not a whole lot, but it might be the difference between getting that last shot in or not.

Pin Down and Debilitating Shot are two other combinations I might bring, but like I said, if I have Tiger's Fury, I tend to just lay loose and spam it rather than stop the animation and put up an attack skill.

Slade xTekno · Jun 21, 2005, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

Okay, sorry but Conjure Phantasm is not a pvp worthwhile skill. Degen is not very powerful, it's just 'nice' but basing a build off it is a waste.

You'd be surprised. It's really dumb, but it works. Try throwing a Phantom Pain on top of all the degen people have listed. The Deep Wound makes degen that much more effective.

imperator · Jun 21, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

It's a good idea...but honestly who targets the ranger first?

and thats a very good thing. rangers can totally destroy a monk poisoning him, burrning hees mana and interupting healing actions. when am monk is dead u do a frozen soil and a party cant res that monk

im a R/Ne but i use only ranger skils and now im Rank 3

Mister Glue · Jun 21, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

The problem with the R/Me anti-caster is that you're just plain worse than a Mesmer anti-caster. You survive better, but most people consider this a moot point because "nobody targets you until your team is dead."

I play an R/Me, but ATM I use only Ranger skills. So you know what? Don't listen to my advice.

Why are you just plain worse than a mesmer? The only real thing that mesmers would have as an advantage is Fast Casting. That can help, but if you're not going to get targeted because you're a ranger, couldn't you dish out spells longer and more effectively, and usually without a caster expecting or even noticing it? Plus, if you add Debilitating shot and something like pin down, then you're pretty bloody deadly because they'd have no energy to cast and not be able to get away (unless the caster is smart enough to have Mend Ailment cast on him so he can run

). Especially nice against a monk.

(And I may not listen to your advice, but I can still argue against it

)

Lasher Dragon · Jun 21, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

I can't believe how many people think Epidemic is actually work using. Your targets have to be shoulder to shoulder for it to work. With Expertise, you're better off to just inflict your conditions on 2 targets and be done with it, it'll cost you less mana and save skill slots. Unless Epidemic's area is boosted significantly I can't justify throwing out 15 mana for it.

Indeed, I had such high hopes of an interesting build when I read Epidemic, but after trying it out in-game, Epidemic sucks big time. Even in PvE, it is damn hard to find groups of enemies that stick close enough together for this POS skill to work. They nearly have to be intimate to pull it off LOL. As it is now, I wouldn't consider it worth 5 mana to cast. Pure garbage IMO.

Neo-LD · Jun 21, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Conjure is a hex, not a condition. It won't trigger fragility.

I can't believe how many people think Epidemic is actually work using. Your targets have to be shoulder to shoulder for it to work. With Expertise, you're better off to just inflict your conditions on 2 targets and be done with it, it'll cost you less mana and save skill slots. Unless Epidemic's area is boosted significantly I can't justify throwing out 15 mana for it.

The problem with the R/Me anti-caster is that you're just plain worse than a Mesmer anti-caster. You survive better, but most people consider this a moot point because "nobody targets you until your team is dead."

I play an R/Me, but ATM I use only Ranger skills. So you know what? Don't listen to my advice.

I know that conjure doesnt trigger fragility.

On the subject of anti caster, mesmers are definatly better for preventing spells from being cast, and for H/E removal. Rangers on the other hand, are very good at energy removal, (echoing dibil shot) and interupt (distracting shot)

Epinephrine · Jun 21, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

The problem with the R/Me anti-caster is that you're just plain worse than a Mesmer anti-caster.

Hugely disagree. Druid's Armour puts you up there with the mesmer's base energy with more armour than they have, especially vs elemental spikes. 1 pip difference in regeneration, but you have access to cheap interrupts and energy denial (4 energy debilitating arrows, 2 energy disputing shots). Hard to beat that rate of energy denial. Yeah, it's not all advantages but they have their place. And being a less desirable target is nice.

arnansnow · Jun 21, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

The problem with druid armor is that it looks really bad.

Brown, you can't change it, dye affects 4% of it, and the rest stays brown.